Many of the arguments atheists throw at religion can themselves be thrown at atheism too. How do you know....that would be my basic one. There is no evidence for God yet, but that's not to say we won't find any. There's no evidence for the Higgs-Boson particle either, but we're spending billions of pounds searching for it. So I'll sit on the fence if that's okay, in this weird limbo that means I get labelled an agnostic.
Recently a christian friend of mine posted on Facebook that there is no evidence for evolution. I saw that he had support from some of his christian friends, and objection from a mutual friend who tried to point out that there is evidence for evolution and its all around us.
Of course, me being me, I had to stick my oar in. Now, the discussion has remained just that, there is no insults being thrown around, no name-calling, just a back and forth about...well, its gone from evolution to all things religious. Its interesting for me, though I confess that I begin to tire of it.
All of a sudden Dawkins and Hitchens have my sympathy. There is just no talking to these people, and I've begun to feel like I'm now the victim of condescension. They talk as if "You poor soul, I only hope the spirit of our Lord visits you soon". As if I'm a sinner in need of redemption. Logic and reason doesn't feature heavily in religious debates, from the religious side at least.
I even posted a web site link. A web site link to the vatican web site to be precise and on that site, you can see a piece of text that acknowledges the universe probably started with a Big Bang and that mankind came from a single organism. I'm not sure how they can say that since it so obviously contradicts their sacred texts, but its there all the same.
I'm shocked to learn in this discussion, that my friend considers his moral compass to come from God. Being a psychologist (for the next year and a half at least), I can point in him the direction of his morals. They come from the orbitofrontal cortex and the amygdala. One, the OFC, is similar to Freud's tri-partite theory of personality in that it considers the options before you and then plans a course of action which you inevitably follow. One, the amygdala, is responsible for emotional memory....so guilt or shame would feature heavily, especially in christians.
I appreciate this view is reductionist, but it doesn't make it any less so. Furthermore, spiritual experiences have now been traced to temporal lobe epilepsy. It must be remembered that 2,000 years ago, most mental illnesses would be attributed to either God or the Devil.
Regressions aside, I pointed him in the direction of the wreckage in New Orleans that came from Hurricane Katrina. In the aftermath, many people went pillaging, and in some horrific cases, women trapped in their homes were raped and abused. People with a previously balanced moral compass can do morally reprehensible things depending on their situation. If someone threatens my son's life, I will do pretty much anything to end that threat, using any means at my disposal. Morals can go hang, and I don't mind hanging for the crime as long as he's protected. Research indicates all societies are three meals away from anarchy. Deprive us of three meals in a row, and you've got a shifting of the moral compass. To say its guided by God is to be too subjective.
To counter this, I was told that there are tribes in 'the Amazon' - which narrows it down - that have similar morals to us. So, how could they do that? It must be God that put these morals there. Interesting argument. Were it not for the Yanomami tribe who torture, beat, rape, and brand their women in order to assert their male dominance. Where's God's moral compass there?
I don't wish to destroy anyone's beliefs in the manner that Dawkins or Hitchens might. However, I get a sense of the gloves coming off in this discussion. I hate that I have to provide evidence for everything I say, and yet they can get away with just having faith. Its frustrating.
My friend believes the world is only 6,000 years old. Despite the fossils. Despite carbon dating. He cannot explain dinosaurs either. Nor the platypus. Nor the ice age. Nor extinction. Nor the fact that 99% of species are now extinct. Nor the fact that if Adam did indeed name them all, he would have needed one hell of a memory considering there's over 2 million species of insect alone.
The big guns will be the striking similarity between the Egyptian God Horus, and our own Jesus of Nazareth. Let's cherry pick some good ones, but rest assured there are many more...
- Both were conceived of a virgin.
- Both births were announced by an angel.
- Jesus' mother was Mary, Horus' mother was Meri.
- Jesus' father was Joseph, Horus' father was Seph.
- Both fathers were of royal descent.
- The birth of both was heralded by a star.
- Both were visited by shepherds at birth.
- Both have no recorded history between the ages of 12 and 30.
- Both baptized in a river at age 30.
- In both cases, the baptizer was later beheaded.
- Both had 12 disciples.
- Both walked on water, healed the sick, the blind, and cast out demons.
- Both delivered a sermon on the mount.
- Both were crucified (Both next to two thieves)
- Both were sent to hell for three days and then resurrected.
- Both said to return for 1,000 year reign.
- Jesus was known as Christ, Horus as KRST. Both these things mean 'the resurrected one'.
Looks a bit odd doesn't it?
I genuinely believe the religious among us are simply being vocal about their search for meaning. As such, they attribute meaning to random events and either thank God for the good ones, or accept he works in mysterious ways for the bad ones. God can't lose in their eyes.
I don't need a God to tell me the best thing to do. As such, if it fucks up I can blame no-one but myself either. I don't need to believe there's ever-lasting reward awaiting me in heaven. There's enough reward down here already. There's enough hell too but let's try and be optimistic.
I will continue the debate with my friend and the members of his church. As long as they keep replying, I have faith that logic, reason, and scientific advancement are on my side and will give me the ammo I need for the argument. Attributing the good in your life to a supernatural being is to deny yourself some serious credit, some serious understanding, and to have a pretty dim view of your life and your abilities.
For out of fear and need each religion is born, creeping into existence on the byways of reason. - Neitzsche.
